Prejudice against Weckl

I'd hate to live in a world that had Vinnie, but didn't have Dave (or Bonzo or Bozzio or Bruford or Buddy or . . . )

"You know, I've never heard a story about Tony Williams that involves him being nice. To be honest, (and I know everyone will want to crucify me for this,) his playing bores me."

Yikes. Tony's phrasing was off the hizzle. Completely. Yes, his drums always sounded "plasticy" and ass-like, but that was the beauty of it. He sat down and beat the living hell out of these horrible-sounding drums and came up with frightening phrases. You're right about the pocket. Tony always played ahead of the beat (even Miles said so). But that's one of the ways you know it's Tony. He had a very strange signature sound. He also played very, very loud.

I don't think there's a lot of "prejudice" against Weckl because he's short. I never even realized he was of small stature until one night at the Jazz Bakery, when he walked right into my left knee. For a short guy, he sure seems to do well with the chickies (his wife is smokin'). Weckl rocks the fashizzle, even if he is Lillipution. (Jesus, I hope he doesn't read this stuff.)

From ESPN Classic--T-Bo Live Drum Funny bits:

"I don't think there's a lot of "prejudice" against Weckl because he's short. I never even realized he was of small stature until one night at the Jazz Bakery, when he walked right into my left knee." [img]eek.gif[/img]

"For a short guy, he sure seems to do well with the chickies (his wife is smokin'). Weckl rocks the fashizzle, even if he is Lillipution." [img]tongue.gif[/img]

...cleaned it up--no more "first part" [img]graemlins/thumbs_up.gif[/img]

<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ May 29, 2003 06:04 PM: Message edited by: PocketPlayer ]</font>

That first part, I was quoting someone else. I don't think Tony's playing is boring at all.

Weckl gets trashed becaues it's become somewhat accepted to do so IMO. Get enough guys in MD to make slights against him and pretty soon every kid out of MI, Berklee, LAMA etc thinks Weckl can't swing.

Also, I know for a fact that many instructors in these schools preach Weckl's playing as being stiff. I don't agree, but people are impressionable and if someone who's not that experienced is told that Dave is a "stiff" player, he's going to respect that person's opinion and perhaps adjust his way of thinking.

Dave has not helped himself either in the "anti stiff mullet movement" by saying his playing is no longer stiff. It's like saying "I'm really humble." Saying it almost makes it not so. [img]tongue.gif[/img]

I think Dave is great and plays like "Weckl." There's absolutely nothing wrong with that (I'm preaching to the choir I know) and hopefully that's what these people/kids will learn. It's all a matter of taste. It's better to try not to speak in absolutes when it comes to art.

Oh, my, here we go again...

PP & TBo - ABSITIVELY, POSOLUTELY FREEKIN HIL-HAIRY-AS*!!

PP [also DDF, TBo] - I couldn't've said it any better [PP - your last post on pg. 1 of this debaucle! [img]tongue.gif[/img] ] - i've always looked at it that way, AW...

I also agree w Teeb about Tony... he turned the music world on it's ear when he was just shy of 17 freakin yrs of age [w Miles]... unprecedented phrasing up until that point [& still holds up today, imo]... it's ok 4 Nikk to feel the way he does because that's his opin & that's cool w me... he didnt say, "Tony sucked" [OR DID HE?!! [img]wink.gif[/img] - 20 lashes w a wet 5A or mallet/ooohh that smarts!]... he simply made references as to y he disliked certain aspects of TWs playin... fine by me, no harm/offense done; none taken... [ain't gon' make me stop listenin' to "Believe It" any more than i could MAKE him listen to it...]

"...eeerrrrrrrrEEEEEEEEEERRRRRRREEEEaaaaahhhhhhhhh h..." [siren] - Oh no - the jazz/swing/beat-PO-leece r here - looks like they've pulled Weckl & Vinnie over & they're giving them citations for "not enuf dotted inflection on the ride cymb"... uh, oh, looks like the Warden ain't happy wif dose 2 boyz, mmm-mmm-mmmmmmm... THAT'S IT - 10 days in da "cooler" wif Rikki [-Tikki] Crockett & Taco Tico Torrid [or Abe Jr, Dennis-when he was phat, or Kirk C [img]wink.gif[/img] ] ...

...That's y all of OUR phone's are ringing off da hook from Sting's, Chick's, Dweez & Ahmet's [Frank's gone], Waldman's, Vanelli's etc etc managements calling us 4 their gigs instead of DW & VC...[no graemlin w thumb up arse [img]frown.gif[/img] ...] Oh, yeah, & that slouch himself Corea absolutlely HATES DW's playin, or any other hack drummer that he's played w/, 4 that matter...
"...eeerrrrrrrrEEEEEEEEEERRRRRRREEEEaaaaahhhhhhhhh h..." - oh, dear, is that the "Sarcasm Police" i hear?!! Guess i'm in deep dookie too...

VINNIE is SH** HOT... WECKL is SH** HOT... DENNIS is SH** HOT... DONATI is SH** HOT... [newsflash: THEY ARE ALL SH**-WHITE-HOT...film at 11...] [PS - Tony was poop-on-an-unshaded-hot-summer-sidewalk aka 'Cleveland Steamer' hot, too ;=)]

END of the [rehashed] STORY. PERIOD.

<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ May 29, 2003 08:20 PM: Message edited by: FuseU1 ]</font>

Good point Derek on Weckl supposedly being stiff, back in the 80's it was big of course to bash him for that but he was not STIFF it was his machine like precision and somehow that was misinterpreted as stiff, WRONG definition. Stiff is a description of feel or touch as some might say, has nothing to do with your playing being spot on delivery wise. There was not enough so called "humaness" in his delivery I once read, good grief the things some like to dicker about.

I saw him back in 87 and of course some guys like you said had been "prepped" all ready to take shots at him for being so called stiff, and they missed out on the GREAT points of his playing. If someone is going to be critical of someones playing at least use the right stinking terminology for goodness sakes. I guess these guys are so good the MINOR, PITHY things really stand out and we can at times miss the greatness going on. And I am definitely speaking about myself on this point. Like I said before if we(I) were only 1/2 as good.

Regards Kirk (Digital)

Jeezuz H Christ! Can we steer away from the Vinnie vs Dave debate... IT'S BOOORING! Seriously. This forum must be more than who's got the best chops etc. I know that you are all VERY knowledgable about Mr Weckl and Mr Colaiuta, but this futile debate must end as the arguments are pointless, as is this thread (IMO).
Can we not get back to discussing M U S I C ? I know that we are all drummers, but sometimes I wish that some of you would get away from meaningless debates about chops and double bass bullshit and start discussing MUSIC in general. Who gives a flying f*ck about technique or chops anyway? I don't. Put on an album with Paul Motion on the drums and then get back to me... until then, can we PLEASE lose this stupid talk of chops, speed and technique. It's all arbitary and has nothing to do with MUSIC.
I am a drummer second, but a MUSICIAN first.

HI DAZZ!!! [img]cool.gif[/img]
I likes m u s i c, too.
I'm sticking out my tongue atchoo [kazeundheit]!
[img]tongue.gif[/img]
OK, seriously, tho - Music IS more import than chops... but chops in d rrrright place [like, say, those guys... er, oh, what's'ernames... oh yeah, Vinnie or Weckl] is most excellent AW... [img]wink.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/thumbs_up.gif[/img]

AAAAHHHH...VIN-NIE-SCHAMINNIE; VECK-EL-SCHAMECKEL....

Great points all, especially Derek. I remember reading an article with hi-hatless, expatriate, poser Leon Parker who said that Weckl was not the next Steve Gadd. Funny-who said he was supposed to be? I've heard a lot of the 'new breed' guys touted as the 'next' Vinnie or the 'next' Weckl.(Zach Danziger and Josh Freese come to mind) That would be like announcing Vinnie as the next Tony Williams. I don't think it's healthy to think of anyone as the "Next" anything. What's the point? IMO this puts some people in a position of failure because sometimes people listen too much to the hype.
If this makes no sense it's because I'm extremely tired.

Clint